Civic-EG.com Forum 3.3.1

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- Fri May 01, 2009 2:54 pm #114336 I was on another general car forum I frequent and someone was impressed with the Volt by Chevrolet. They said it will cost around $40k.
I personally think that modern hybrids are a joke compared to what people like us are already used to. I went back and read it and thought it sounded pretty good! I pasted my rant/comment below.

The big 3 are trying... but just do what Honda did 10-20 years ago.
92-95 Civic VX hatchback and 96-2000 Civic HX coupe run on 87 octane and close one of the 2 intake valves almost completely under light throttle when cruising. This yields MPG from 40 to 50 mpg. I do a lot of highway and country road driving with a little bit of city. Yesterday I filled up my 96 hx and got 44 MPG. This is not a tin can, same as a civic EX but different powertrain. No batteries, charging etc.
I paid $1800 for the car 3.5 yrs ago (good deal) but they are usually between $2k and $4k depending on condition.
The 92-95 VX hatchback gets slightly better MPG because it burns a little more lean and is lighter than the 96-00 coupe.
Even back in the late 80's CRX HF's were getting 40-50 MPG, at the expense of only fitting 2 people in the car.
All these engines were 1.5 or 1.6 liters
Don't forget the Insight, their first hybrid. Yes it had batteries and sat 2 people, but it got 70 MPG. That's 10 year old technology. And people are excited about modern hybrids getting 30-40 mpg?

Looking at GM, there was the GEO Metro as someone mentioned. It looked less sleek than the civics but got the same job done.

These days you have all your airbags, reinforced frames, power this and that, all kinds of options, GPS... Most of the cars I mentioned above weigh in at 2000 or so lbs. (unsure about insight but it was about 1700) The early CRX was lightest (under 2k), then the 92-95 Civic gained a few hundred lbs up to 2200. My 96 HX is around 2600. The next generation Civics are heavier, the 06+ ones even heavier.
I'm using the Civic as an example because I have a lot of experience with them, but all the manufacturers need to put their vehicles on a diet. Lighter materials is the only thing that's gong to make up for all the extra BS they put in cars these days. A lighter vehicle will also stop faster, accelerate faster, and handle better.

But getting back on track... Dont be surprised that nobody is buying $40k hybrids when there are reliable used cars for a few grand that will do better, if the sole purpose is to help a long commute be more affordable. There will always be wealthy who buy a hybrid Escalade or Lexus just because they want to make a statement while still enjoying their leather, gps, surround sound, wood trim, oversized wheels, power options and all the other dead weight that helps them feel like they are traveling in their living room.

Do Not PM me your technical questions. Post them in the forum!
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- Fri May 01, 2009 3:16 pm #114343 Hybrid's / electric cars are a backward step.

Yes, backwards.

We don't want a combination setup.

We want something entirely new.

Hydrogen works.

So here's the idea, Honda announce they will sell the FCX all over the world, fuel stations are modified accordingly to sell Hydrogen alongside normal fuels and every other manufacturer gets off their arses and designs a decent car with a hydrogen powertrain.

This brings a number of benefits to the table:

- Vastly reduced strain on oil
- Exceptionally similar to the system we use currently, you drive into a fuel station, fill up and drive off
- Decent performance
- Did I mention the vastly reduced strain on oil reserves?

What this does, is opens up the commuter market to non-polluting cars which don't have to be charged for 12 hours (as battery cars do) and is no different to a current petrol / diesel based vehicle.

I'm well aware that electrolysis is far from desirable in terms of pollution and all this other shit, but consider that the production of hydrogen to run the car is offset entirely by the fact that the car only emits water. Rather than having to drill the oil, ship it halfway around the world, refine it, ship it to the fuel stations and then get burnt producing carbon based emissions for the life time of the car.

Instead, you're using electricity which could quite easily be produced from a renewable source (if it were powerful enough, hydroelectricity?) to seperate hydrogen atoms from whatever it is attached to and then shipping that to the fuel stations.

How is that not sensible?

How is it NOT the way to do things?

Honda will make an absolute KILLING as they would have the market all to themselves until everyone else had developed a working test bed. Hell, Honda could share the plans for their own unit at extortionate cost to tap into what would be an exceptionally lucrative market.

And yet companies are still making hybrids

Ignoring also that the fuel works out substantially cheaper than oil also and you're onto a winner. Even if the government over here slapped their dumb ass 70% tax on it, it would still work out considerably cheaper and the hydrogen power train would get similar MPG to a small engined hatchback.

This also frees up the market for the petrol heads who then can have their pride and joy parked up for weekend use and still have access to petrol. It would never be dropped completely as performance cars would remain petrol for obvious reasons.

It's blindingly obvious and no one is doing anything about it.

- Fri May 01, 2009 3:28 pm #114348 Wooahh, essay man.

Hybirds are over rated imo, but as it's said we need something when fuel does eventually run out. Half electric and half fuel is just gay. Electric engines are also lame.

As you said, if you watched TopGear they explained most of it with that new Honda FCX Clarity.




The design of it looks pretty sweet, and as they bought up. A maintence free car is also an end result.

- Fri May 01, 2009 6:58 pm #114379 Honda just keeps kicking everyones ass when it comes to the future car, they've had the same idea and havnt had to change it since the 80's (refering to the 40-50 mpg crx and vx/hx). The FCX Clarity is only the next step to success that even the Toyota Prius cant touch. But hopefully will somday since toyota is awsome also. The only real downside to the FCX is its a lil spendy andlast i heard the only real gas stations that support it are in socal.
Hybrids today are jokes but you gotta look at how they are atleast postponing the horrific no more gas age. Not by much but still at least that little bit helps.


FCX FTW

- Fri May 01, 2009 7:40 pm #114385 It's only sold in California - hence why the only Hydrogen stations are there.

If they said they wanted to sell it world wide, then I'm very sure that most companies would start to provide provisions for hydrogen fuelling.

The whole point of the FCX is it's a car that is the same as what we have now with a powertrain producing only water as an emission and costs the same as any other family hatchback.

That's its ace in the hole, it isn't anywhere near as expensive as it has the right to be.

- Sat May 02, 2009 3:45 pm #114486 Not to mention that the manufacturing of the gas/electric hybrid vehicle is so harmful to the environment that they will never conserve enough fuel to overturn the damage done by the manufacturing process. Taking the Toyota Prius as an example, and it has been researched, the making of the battery alone is reliant on a combination of extremely toxic production ventures. There is mining of stupidly unstable and toxic elements in Canada and materials produced in Mexico and different parts of South America as well as Asia where there are no restrictions on industry pollution all in an effort to bring more industry to these developing nations. And then the shipping of all these different products to Japan for the actual production of the vehicle itself...

It all combines into one huge mess that the conservation efforts of the vehicle itself, once in working order, cannot overturn.

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- Sat May 02, 2009 4:39 pm #114498

Hybrid's / electric cars are a backward step.

Yes, backwards.

We don't want a combination setup.

We want something entirely new.

Hydrogen works.

Couldn't agree more bro, take note to what the Japanese are doing, hell there is even a Hydrogen powered RX-8 in Japan, my prob with "Hybrid" cars is this...they suck, there is nothing about them that makes me want to buy one, the Toyota Prius is just plane UGLY, make cars that people would enjoy driving with some comforts and style if you want to sell hybrids....

take note:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtPwnsyGTxw

If you haven't done your research, don't install the damn thing...