simple question- timing!

B16, B18, B20
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simple question- timing!

By ExCoupe94
- Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:57 am #182641 so... needs to time my car, i know you can use the timing marks at an idle but theres a better way for performance with the adjustable timing light... i was wondering at what degree do i time my b18b1 when its 3000 rpm plus? (obd1?) :(
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By forcefedEG
- Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:10 pm #182841 never used a timing light on a honda, ive always held it at 3000 and set it off of ear, turing the dist forward or backward.... :? just try playing with it and see what works :thumb:
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By suspendedHatch
- Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:08 pm #182906 Turning your distributor sets the BASE ignition timing. The ECU trusts you to set the base timing to the spec that is on the emissions sticker under your hood. From there it adjusts the ignition timing to whatever it wants. For instance, it fluctuates the ignition timing to keep the idle smooth, advancing it if the RPMs drop from the rad fan, PS sensor input, ELD input etc. Dropping it if the idle is too high. Above idle the ECU refers to a predetermined ignition map to add or subtract timing from the base timing.

Messing with the base timing does nothing for performance. There is no blanket adjustment you can make to the entire calibration to increase power. If you advance the entire ignition timing, you MAY gain power in some RPM / load cells (referring to the calibration fuel and ignition tables) but you will lose power in others. It's the same thing as an adjustable FPR. Foolhardy.

In some cells, reducing timing increases power, and in others, increasing it increases power. If you ignite the fuel mixture too soon, the flame front will fight the piston on it's way up. If you start it too late, the piston will already be on it's way down and the flame front will chase after it. The best example is to push someone on a swing. Advancing the timing too far is the same as pushing the person when the swing is still coming backward. You will drastically slow them down. If they knock you on your ass that is analogous to pushing your piston out the side of your block. Which CAN and DOES happen. You need to push them at the perfect moment, but with an engine a dyno is the only reliable and effective way to find just when that is.

Blindly advancing your base timing will increase the risk of detonation, increase your emissions output, you could lose fuel economy, decrease power, and reduce the life on the engine. You need a load-bearing dyno and a competent tuner to go into groups of connected cells and adjust the timing up or down to find the best torque that doesn't put your engine at risk.
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By suspendedHatch
- Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:13 pm #182907
forcefedEG wrote:never used a timing light on a honda, ive always held it at 3000 and set it off of ear, turing the dist forward or backward.... :? just try playing with it and see what works :thumb:


That is absolutely ridiculous. There is no reason not to buy a cheap timing gun and time it properly. Ignition timing is so damn critical and a few degrees off makes a big difference.

There is no reason to time it at a higher RPM than stock unless you have an aftermarket ECU and you're verifying that the ECU is advancing it properly (I forget the technical term for this setting).
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By forcefedEG
- Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:03 pm #183095
suspendedHatch wrote:That is absolutely ridiculous. There is no reason not to buy a cheap timing gun and time it properly. Ignition timing is so damn critical and a few degrees off makes a big difference.

There is no reason to time it at a higher RPM than stock unless you have an aftermarket ECU and you're verifying that the ECU is advancing it properly (I forget the technical term for this setting).


yea i have a snap on timing light, with dwell and all that good shit, ive used it before but for most STOCK builds or STOCK parts combo i dont seen much need in getting a timing light out, espically if you line all your marks up and put everything at zero for your base cam timing, i just set the dist. slightly advaned, but on my boosted engine i set it right at 0, or maybe slightly -of 0... and i allways run hightest gas in a vtec engine, and i have not had a problem 1 yet as far as detonation, maybe ive just been lucky idk, but everything ive had has run good, or even better than it should have... now if i had a built motor with cams and a bunch of shit done id prob get a timing light out and set everything "the right way"... honestly ive done enough diff setups to know about where it needs to go by eye or sound... dont wana argue, im just saying what ive done has worked great for me... so it cant be too ridiculous...

but if you say turning the dist dose nothing, what im doing is neither hurting or helping? if i dont have a tuning program you cannot really adjust the ignition timing thru your power band? right? advanced timing gives you more mid to high powerband, where as a retarded or delayed igniton timing givs you low and mid, so i can see where you say about your cells in your tuning being affected... but at one point you said turning the dist. dose nothing that it only sets your base, and its controlled by the computer, but then you said its critical and can be affected by a degree or two... im not trying to argue, and im not saying your not knowedgeable, ive read your other posts on here, honestly ive never gotten very deep into igniton timing, ive just kinda estimaed and put it where i thought it should be by the knowledge i know of the engine and its powerband chartistics, and i would just like you to clarify...
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