Civic-EG.com Forum 3.3.1

- Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:54 pm #214227 ok so im thinking of doing an engine conversion in my eg to either a b16 or b18 and the thought has crossed my mind to turbo it aswell, i have throughly resreached it. My aim would be 300 - 400 whp, its a daily driver but i like my fast cars. Here is what i have came up with:

Wossner Forged Pistons low compression
Forged Rods
ARP Head studs
ACL Main Bearings
uprated Head Gasket(Steel headgasket??)
Uprated Valves(forged stainless steel painted in PVD nitrate.)

Walbro Fuel pump
750cc fuel injectors
ngk ix Spark plugs
Fuel Regulator
Oil catch tank

Boost controller
Boost gauge
Turbo Timer

FMIC with hardpipes
Tial 44mm Wastegate
50mm Tial BOV

Uprated CLutch

Now after that obviously i need a turbo, turbo manifold and downpipe, i had considered a gt3076r turbo with ramhorn manifold and downpipe, how ever its very costly. Is there any other turbo, mani and downpipes you could recomend that would gve good power 300whp + and were to get them? Also can i run a p72 or chipped p28 ecu and get it mapped with a turbo setup or what ecu would u recomend?

- Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:09 am #214442 Well for the ecu it would depend on what motor you choose. You definetely should get a Hondata s300. Also a GT40R would be good in my opinion even though I heard theyvare rare so maybe a GT35R. Also correct me if im wrong but is 750cc injectors to big?

- Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:06 am #214447 maybe it is, would 500cc injectors work better? Il ask my tuner what ecu he suggests but ill look into the hondata s300.. Are them t3/t4 Trubos any good?

- Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:27 pm #214454 Better to have injectors that are a little bigger than you need. You don't want to be running them at max duty cycle all the time. You can always scale them back, you can't scale smaller injectors up.

I know that RC 440s max out around 270ish whp ... I'm not sure how much more you can get out of 500s ... I'd go with at least a 550 or go with the 750s that way if you decide you want moar boost you have the room to do it. (although at that point you may not have a streetable car anymore)

Straight lines are for sissies.

- Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:48 pm #214478 ive been told that on the b18c (Integra Type r Jap engine) that you can safley run 8psi on stock intenals and get aroun 250 - 300 whp? is This true? i was told that enginee is already forged and to just got arp head studs and main studs, acl race bearings and steel headgasket... any truth in this?

- Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:58 pm #214616

ive been told that on the b18c (Integra Type r Jap engine) that you can safley run 8psi on stock intenals and get aroun 250 - 300 whp? is This true? i was told that enginee is already forged and to just got arp head studs and main studs, acl race bearings and steel headgasket... any truth in this?

The only forged part in honda motors (as far as I know) is the crank, which is why people are able to make crazy power without swapping it. The Type R b18c will make good power on low boost because (1) it's a high compression motor (~10:1 IIRC) so each psi will net you more power than in a lower CR motor, (2) it has a slight P&P from the factory and (3) it has a more aggressive cam than it's non Type R cousin, however the cam is optimized for N/A performance so that is something to take into consideration.

That being said the power you can make reliably (on any motor) is dependent on the tune, and the turbo. Depending on what turbo you choose 8 psi may or may not get you to your power goal ... cfm is the stat from a turbo that makes power. A large turbo will flow more cfm at lower boost than some smaller turbos on high boost. Don't get hung up on PSI numbers.

Straight lines are for sissies.

- Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:03 pm #214618 ok, so it would be safe enough to run standard internals, with a good tune with the type r b18 as long as i dont push it to much? What ecu is recommened, p30?

- Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:31 pm #214624 The best person to talk to would be your tuner. He'll know his limits better than we will.

That aside. Honda motors respond pretty well to boost, and are generally safe at low boost. I've seen lots of low boost setups on stock internals. The only thing to keep in mind with that Type R b18c is the high compression which leave less room for error in the tune.

Straight lines are for sissies.

- Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:08 am #219361 don't take this the wrong way man but I feel the need to interject.
First off if you are unsure about the price of a ramhorn you should stop and take a look at your multi-thousand dollar list. Have you ever been turbo charged? Instead of blowing these massive dollars which, no offense to anyone, but anybody could do, why don't you do like a low buck build and with junkyard parts and your d-series. Then you gain valuable knowledge along the way and if you accidentally blow up your d then you can take that as a time to go buy your b. Or maybe even stick around your d for a little longer because of the availability of junkyard parts and the want to experiment more. Knowledge is power.

Just to give you an example. Keep in mind I also live in Edmonton alberta and things are more pricey up here. I am going turbo myself. I will have the entire engine side of things, firewall foward, ready for less than a thousand bucks. That is keeping in mind that a couple of those parts are a quality adjustable cam gear, ebay or cheap used intercooler, assorted piping kit for turbo piping, and exhaust piping to build the downpipe and exhaust. These things account for the majority of the thousand. Now yes there is also engine managment, tire/rim combo, suspension. I don't include those though because engine managment i will not be cheaping out on, tires and rims cost money no matter what, but can still find great deals on used stuff, but even the suspension setup will be a polyurethane bushing kit, some relatively cheap dampers and springs which I am pretty sure I can find a good deal on some somewhere used.

My point being that you don't have to spend so much cash. Try using your ingenuity and doing more for less. Look for deals, go to meets and talk to everyone you find. Just by being a real sociable guy at the dragstrip on a friday night I picked up a t25 turbo off of a mitsu eclipse and the 450 injectors for $125 in, I kid you not, brand new condition. People have jewels just sitting on there shelves at home and don't need them, but will almost give them away for next to nothing just cause they enjoy knowing that the stuff is going to a good home and not a pawn shop.

My goal with my dirty cheap build is low 13's and 200 horse at the wheels.
I think i will have some difficulty getting 200whp with that little t25 but with a little ingenuity I might just get er done.

Take it easy and best of luck. Keep us posted

- Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:15 pm #219402 You will have absolutely no difficulty hitting the 200whp mark on a t25. I have a similarly sized turbo and I'm currently making 184whp (on 8 psi, and a very conservative tune).

Back to your interjection. It will be easier for the OP to make 300whp on a b-series engine. The D's are great, but I'm not going to lie they do have their short comings (however d16>b16 any day). The reason people stick with the D is, like you said, they are cheap and parts are readily available (because of all the B-series fanboys). It sounds to me like money is not an issue for the OP and if he want's a B-series more power too him. And as he said he's already done the leg work as far as research on his build.

Straight lines are for sissies.

- Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:36 am #219504 Well if money is no issue mise well just start with a kick ass base engine like a k-series or something.
For a d16 to hold 300 to the wheels all you need is some ls rods. The factory a6 cam or z6 cam will support 300 whp but it would make life easier with a mild turbo cam. I think pistons may be a little iffy though at that stress level. Someone with more knowledge will have to speak up on that issue. So there you go, a trip to the junkyard to get some rods, a machine shop to shave them and maybe some pistons. How is that for dirt cheap shopping list

Autoxcivic pm'd

- Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:15 pm #219553 Cast piston are definitely a weak point in any build. Yes it is possible to do 300whp daily on a d but you can do it with less boost and a less aggressive tune on a b. Heck ls/vtec on 10 lbs on a mediumish turbo will probably get you close (with stock internals). The b series have a much stouter bottom end to build off of.

Straight lines are for sissies.

- Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:21 pm #219571

Cast piston are definitely a weak point in any build. Yes it is possible to do 300whp daily on a d but you can do it with less boost and a less aggressive tune on a b. Heck ls/vtec on 10 lbs on a mediumish turbo will probably get you close (with stock internals). The b series have a much stouter bottom end to build off of.

My engine theory is still in the works but pressure is resistance to flow so do to less displacement and a more restrictive stock system than a ls engine you would need more pressure to flow the same amount of air. Subsequently more pressure more heat. Theoretically it would take nearly the same flow to reach the same horsepower level though. With some very minor mods to a d to open it up i do not really see the difficulty. It would be a good learning experience. I don't think the tune would be that much of an issue either.

Why ls/vtec? For the price of a gsr today it is impractical to use an inferior block/internals. Not hating on it to much. Like if you got a vtec head and an ls bottom sitting around then mise well do something with it, but for people to go out and purchase the parts so they can specifically do an ls/vtec, I think that is a little silly. The ls bottom end was not designed to rev as high as the capable vtec head, but the gsr bottom end was. If someone has proof that they are revving there ls bottom to 8k everyday with no issues and lots of miles on it I will gladly shut up lol The gsr also has a better oiling system.

- Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:36 pm #219572

ok so im thinking of doing an engine conversion in my eg to either a b16 or b18 and the thought has crossed my mind to turbo it aswell, i have throughly resreached it. My aim would be 300 - 400 whp, its a daily driver but i like my fast cars. Here is what i have came up with:

Wossner Forged Pistons low compression
Forged Rods
ARP Head studs
ACL Main Bearings
uprated Head Gasket(Steel headgasket??)
Uprated Valves(forged stainless steel painted in PVD nitrate.)

Walbro Fuel pump
750cc fuel injectors
ngk ix Spark plugs
Fuel Regulator
Oil catch tank

Boost controller
Boost gauge
Turbo Timer

FMIC with hardpipes
Tial 44mm Wastegate
50mm Tial BOV

Uprated CLutch

Now after that obviously i need a turbo, turbo manifold and downpipe, i had considered a gt3076r turbo with ramhorn manifold and downpipe, how ever its very costly. Is there any other turbo, mani and downpipes you could recomend that would gve good power 300whp + and were to get them? Also can i run a p72 or chipped p28 ecu and get it mapped with a turbo setup or what ecu would u recomend?

No need for low comp pistons
ACL race bearings, Regular ACL's suck
OEM honda MLS gasket or golden eagle mfg head gasket
For the power you want a stock head would be fine.

Don't choose your wastegate until you choose your turbo set up.
I think a garrett t3/t3 57 trim (450-500bucks) would do well on this. I have used that turbo many times, and had great success. My brothers car made 413hp on that turbo. my sisters srt4 make 368hp daily driven. both are on 2-bolt style tial 38mm gates

Manifold wise, a revv hard cast mani will also do fine. pick em up for 100 bucks, make great power, don't ever break. Again, my bros car has one as well.

Those are my thoughts on your build. Honestly, for the power you want, you could stay stock motor. Just make sure your tuner knows what he's doing.

D16z6. Golden Eagle. AFI Turbo. Precision Turbo. Hondata. CG racing.
618hp, 407tq SOHC 10.68@137
My 92 hatch SOHC build. Quest for +600hp. Check it!