d build discussion

D15, D16, D17 and Mini-Me swaps
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d build discussion

By eg84dr
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:13 am #236243 iv been hanging out with alot of autox dudes in my town and they all love the vw 2.0 cause you can build 1.9 strokers out of them and get good power
i said that hondas you can do the same thing and they all laughed at me and just shook thier head
so i got home and started playing with zealaoutoworks compression calc and came up with a sweet motor build
i know you can get higher compression builds with way less work but i think this one would be more reliable with less tuning
here it goes
tell me what u guys think
d16z6 block
d16z6 rods
d16y8 head
d15b7 pistons
arp rod bolts and head bolts
z6 head gasket

you say the b7 pistons will stick out of the block?
they will
untill you mill them down .028
combined with milling the head .020 this will give a 11.98 to 1 compression wich seems high yes but i think it will be reliable bc of the fact that the b7 pistons are basically perfect for high compression they are perfectly flat and milling them .028 wont do much to affect the valve reliefs
also timing wont be hard just by an adjustable cam gear and set timing 4 degrees past tdc
also was thinking about high compresion valves that would take the head cc down to 31cc instead of 32.80


soo tell me what you all think
i could do all this for under 500 bucks also
Last edited by eg84dr on Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By chrono404
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:45 am #236247 Unless you plan on running e85 or Race Gas you will need to have your ECU Retuned if you plan on running close to 12:1 Compression.

You can run 12:1 Compression on pump gas, however Not with out getting your ECU retuned. It will be more then just adjusting a adjustable cam gear.

If your looking for more N/A Power I would recommend using d17 Crank, Rods and Pistons and Stroke your d16z6 into a 1.7. This would put you at a 9.7:1 Compression ratio. Very Pump gas friendly and boost friendly. If you want High Compression swap out the d17 pistons with "PMS-A00 (US 01-03 GX)" Pistons and you will be at 12.06:1 Compression. However ECU tuning or Race gas will be needed running around 12:1 Compression.

With both d17 crank piston setups listed above you wont need to machine any pistons, You will have to notch your block for the extra stroke of the crank. However no machine on your pistons will be needed. You will also get better torque of a 1.7 liter bottom end.

Good luck on whichever build you decided to do. However using z6 rods and high comp pistons isn't truly a stroker build.

Another really good thing to think about is gas prices are expected to hit $4.00 us a gallon this year and $5.00 US a Gallon by next year in the US. That is for Reguler 87 Octane, Something for though when thinking of building an engine. This is why my Daily Driver has HX Transmission despite having a D16z6 Engine.
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By eg84dr
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:52 am #236249 the reason im thinking of the build above is simply for the cost fact i have all theparts besides the rings and bearings i would need and the arp hardware
i can do all the machining myself and as far as the tuning goes i forgot to mention that i would obvoisly need a retune
i could tone the build down a bit and use a z6 head and compression would be a bit lower and that way i could run 93 octane untill i could get a tune
these are all still thoughts but i just need opinions
thanks chrono
edit: gx pistons are pretty much discontinued forever haha
i tried to get some a while back for my d15b rebuild

By Butterzz
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:00 am #236252 I think increasing you compression ratio by a solid 2 points without a retune is unrealistic. You would have pre-detonation even with 93 octane fuel. And a tune will cost you around $100/hr.

My thoughts are if you're interested in being competitive at autoX, do an LS/VTEC swap and run one of those at high compression because let's face it, N/A D series' just aren't fast enough out of the box.
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By eg84dr
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:15 am #236257 im not interested in being competitive in autox i just wanna prove that the single cams can be great if u build em right
and if i was to do autox you cant do motor swaps has to stay stock unless you run the open class wick there is not chance of a honda winning that
and im not sure where u got 100$ an hour for a tune
this isnt about building something with crazy power just more about building something unique and new
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By Ajax1989
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:21 am #236258 2.0 to a 1.9 is a destroked motor
you can get high revs, but u give up tq

but u can turn 9000-10000rpms all day around a track
there is this teacher at my skoo wit a destroked gsr pushin
240whp and redlines at 12k

but using other rods with a z6 crank doesnt affect stroke
only the crank its self

im doin wat chrono mention
im doin a z6 stroked to a 1.7
using oem honda parts

this will yeld more tq at lower rpms
but u lose a lil high end hp
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By eg84dr
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:41 am #236265 also what would be awesome is what chrono said but use jdm d15b pistons and its like 10.5 with no milling of the head at all
tooo bad u cant get d15b pistons
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By Ajax1989
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:44 am #236267 my build is gonna consit of
z6 block
d17a1 crack
d17a1 rods
z6 pistons
z6 head

thats a rough estmate of 130whp
and 120ish ft lbs tq to the wheels
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By eg84dr
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:51 am #236268 thats a good build
i got one better tho :twisted:
d16z6 block
d17 crank and rods
z6 head
b7pistons milled down 2mm
that will be 11.5 to 1
with a good tune you could get 150 hp i bet
thats like the best of all worlds a stroked z6 with flat pistons and high cmpression

By AutoXCivic
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:28 am #236292 If you want to compete with the VW guys N/A you are going to have to run some serious compression to make up for the lack of displacement. From the sounds of it you are planning on running in a modified class (SMF perhaps), therwise you wouldn't have as much freedom to mess around. I've seen a really fast d16 ... the guy was really cool and we got to talking. N/A D16 Non-Vtec running close to 13:1 CR ... IIRC.


But in all honestly to be competitive in AutoX build from the ground up. Start with tires ... I can't stress enough how much of a difference your tires make. As someone once put it "tires are like horsepower for Autocross". Seriously suspension and tires first, all the power in the world will not help you if you can't keep it on the ground. The guy with the fast a shit hatch was running 225 or 245 Hoosiers all the way around and I guarantee you that was one of the biggest factors in his speed. The other being seat time, which I believe is as important if not more important than tires and suspension. Get to know your car, learn what it can and can't do.
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By eg84dr
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:32 pm #236315 im actaully looking to do ice racing next year wich is pretty open but you just can run a motor swap so it has to be in stock form
it all comes down to tires in aci rcing as well but you have to have good power coming out of the corners i think in a gutted sedan a d16z6 with around 150 hp would be a pretty good little car
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By Ajax1989
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:11 pm #236322
eg84dr wrote:thats a good build
i got one better tho :twisted:
d16z6 block
d17 crank and rods
z6 head
b7pistons milled down 2mm
that will be 11.5 to 1
with a good tune you could get 150 hp i bet
thats like the best of all worlds a stroked z6 with flat pistons and high cmpression


why mess wit the pistons?
if u used the z6 the cr is about 11.6:1
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By eg84dr
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:45 pm #236326 and z6 pistons will stick out of the whole .087
wich is 2.2 millimeters
you need a piston with a compression height of 27.00
z6 and b7 has a compresion height of 30.00
best option would be a d17 crank rod and pistons and mill the block .030
that will be 10.24 to1
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By OleFolk
- Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:10 pm #236335
eg84dr wrote:thats a good build
i got one better tho :twisted:
d16z6 block
d17 crank and rods
z6 head
b7pistons milled down 2mm
that will be 11.5 to 1
with a good tune you could get 150 hp i bet
thats like the best of all worlds a stroked z6 with flat pistons and high cmpression


Believe it or not I was pondering on this same build
Just never put in enough research to make it go anywhere

Although if you are using oem parts It would be interesting to use the D15B cam with the Z6 head, or just a D15B head if possible.
That plus stroked to 1.7 with D17 crank rods and pistons it should produce good torque.

D15B heads are more aggressive I know u know that eg84dr, its just a matter of finding one if you dont have one already.
It would be something like a D17B6 :lol:
But hell I say go for it. If your successful in any way its progression
Franken D's do exist, but they seem decently uncommon
Anyways to me this seems like the Frankenstein D series big block which might just be promising. Good Luck man

:thumb:
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